Millionaires/PTMY

[Poster Saint]

Just my perception of things, but just in reading some of the posts here it seems that many of the older fans don't care much for Millionaires or Pleased to Meet You. I mean "older" in the sense of people who had the good fortune to discover James eons before I did, this is no criticism of anyone's age, especially considering I've no idea how old most of us are.

Something I noticed about their last two efforts compared to the rest of their catalogue is that the above mentioned albums seem to have been recorded differently, that is I find when listening to them that many of the songs seem to have been composed in a more traditional manner as opposed to "jam" sessions. I'd like to reiterate that this is strictly the way I perceive these records, but I think they're just as relevant and brilliant as the other recordings.

This argument could be supported by the fact that they've never played "Afro Lover", which I think could have been reformatted for a live setting, but definitely not reproduced on stage in utter faith to the LP version. I've read that songs like "Crash" and such were birthed in studio under Brian Eno's direction: another winning formula; at least for James.

I might actually include Whiplash in the list but it seems to have a warmer reception. Any thoughts?

[saysomething]

Millionaires grates me because the first five tracks are brilliant, on a par with the opening of Seven, but then it all seems to go wrong. Strangers plods, Hello is just too lightweight, Afro Lover tries hard, but then the final four tracks just simply are not on a par with their live equivalents.

Pleased To Meet You on the other hand is a great album. A bit sceptical about the title track and Fine, Stand, Coffee And Toast or a recorded version of Scratchcard would be more suitable, but it works excellently as an album and stands up alongside the earlier works. Senorita even survives some poor lyrical changes from the early live versions.

[Poster Saint]

oneofthethree said:

Millionaires grates me because the first five tracks are brilliant, on a par with the opening of Seven, but then it all seems to go wrong. Strangers plods, Hello is just too lightweight, Afro Lover tries hard, but then the final four tracks just simply are not on a par with their live equivalents.

Pleased To Meet You on the other hand is a great album. A bit sceptical about the title track and Fine, Stand, Coffee And Toast or a recorded version of Scratchcard would be more suitable, but it works excellently as an album and stands up alongside the earlier works. Senorita even survives some poor lyrical changes from the early live versions.

Let's skip the first five Millionaires tracks, because I agree they are brilliant. "Strangers" I somewhat agree with. I think it's a gorgeous song but might benefit from an edit of a minute or so. It's perfect for when you feel the world is too big and mean to actually feel human.

"Hello" would probably be my favourite Millionaires track if I were in the mood to listen to it more often. I do agree that it's sonically diluted, but I think those vocals are emotionally charged (easily in my top 3 Tim takes), the piano is perfect, and as I mentioned I really think that this one would be categorized with the more traditional songs. It's very moody, like something radiohead might have done, for example.

"Afro Lover" is catchy. Maybe a little too corny to be a single, but I think it has a very real and pure message and intent, which it properly conveys to me, hence I think it's a successful song, if songs are "forms of/a media for" expression. Again, no way could you convince me they used Jamesesque recording methods.

I love the way the guitars are tuned in "Surprise". They sound just as sour as the vocals and lyrics. If one is looking for music to brighten the mood of things, then I would stray from this one. But it's ideal when things are grating and frustrating, it really helps to wash stress away.

SGIIFM, I still remember the first time I ever heard this song. I think it has all the components that comprise a masterpiece, a classic. I think this would have struck chords with many, many people. Had I had this song back when I was a teenager I'd probably be scarred with James tattoos right now.

"Vervaceous" seems like a sister song to "Imagine Ourselves". I love Tim's philosophy and outlook on things. I don't know what surprises death has in store for any or all of us, but I truly do believe that there is some form of existence that succeeds this one, and indeed is the image of drifting through space a beautiful one, be it alone or with a soulmate.

Naturally, everyone's opinion is valid. But back to the point I was trying to focus on, do you think the reason you regard these songs as you do is because they seem to have been approached in radically different ways than "Sometimes" (e.g.)? One thing I really do appreciate about James's earlier work is how raw it sounds. Millionaires and Pleased to Meet You, both of which I love, sound more like the polished works of professionals, whereas their older works strike me as a group dynamic with all the flair in the world, but the thing that is so exciting about the early work is the fact that the song structures are much more chaotic but somehow cohesive. James have an amazing sense of rhythm and tempo, but I find some songs on their last few efforts seem more cyclical than the older material.

[saysomething]

I think we're sort of on the same line here. Don't get me wrong, I think Surprise, Dumb Jam, SGIIFM and Vervaceous are great songs, my disappointment is that the recorded versions seem to dilute the power of the live versions. The rawness and energy in the live performances, particularly SGIIFM and Vervaceous where the music just lifts you away, just seems to be lost in the mix somewhere. Listen to Vervaceous and SGIIM on the live cd and see if you can get where I'm coming from. The Millionaires sessions were by all accounts rather drawn out with the band trying to strive for perfection in the mix and that's never been what James have been about. Most of the other albums where the tracks had been previewed before the release (all of them except Laid and Whiplash had most of their tracks played live before release) managed to capture the energy. Millionaires only half did. Pleased To Meet You did and I think actually exceeded it in quite a few of the tracks.

Anyway, as an aside, it's good to finally have some intelligent debate about James. There's not been a lot around for a long time so this messageboard seems to be serving its purpose.

[Poster Saint]

I really appreciate debating James as well.

It might be a problem with my browser, but on the main page the song archive seems to be missing. Are you in the process of working on some of the pages? Reason I ask is I'm curious to read what you have for the "Senorita" lyrics. I've never read them on here since they were printed in the booklet.

I've noticed that in some cases there are extra verses, which I'm assuming are from live takes or what Tim sings most often. Given the nature of James, I think the extras are just as valid as what ends up in the final product. I've never come across a band that treats its audience to so much "life" in their sets. Since I missed it all the first time, I'd love to read/hear alternate versions. If I'd only been born in the UK...

[Poster Saint]

Sorry, I found the song archive. That was stupid of me...

[brd]

As the debate ends, and I copy gigabytes of audio files off my old primary hard drive before it fails, I can't help but throw in my two bits as I do enjoy the two cds.

I understand where you are coming from Dave on the live performances of the last half of Millionaires and in fact agree with you re:SOGIIFM. And I think that you are being rather kind in your assessment of Hello. That said I do prefer the studio cd versions of Strangers & Vervaceous (in particular I really like what Eno did with Sinead's closing vocal. Thank goodness that got left in rather than having I Defeat put on the cd). I rarely listen to Millionaires straight out of the can, rather I listen to my version with the "best" Millionaires b-sides (I've titledl it "Multi-Millionaires"). Why Downstairs got left off Millionaires is beyond me as its brilliant and is my counterpoint to Messr Poster Saint's assertion about the "cyclical nature" of the songs on these two cd's. Further and perhaps this is more pronounced on the bsides, but my daughter (to bring in a rather neutral viewpoint on James) has commented a few times about the odd song structures on these cd's (I think that we can partly thank Michael and his introduction of counter melodies for this).

re:PTMY, I also find Fine rather questionable (though Mark's xmas 2001 remix is great) as is "Give It Away" but I think the title track is perfect. I would have added "Make You Alright" (the frippertronics guitar at the end is great) and Scratchcard to the cd for sure. I found it curious to read Kulas state something to the effect that PTMY suffered in that they didn't have enough studio & production time for it.

And to now partially contradict what I said, I find the live acoustic versions of these songs to be quite interesting and in some cases superior to the studio versions (e.g. the German radio acoustic version of IKWIHF, the live at Ridge Farm version of "The Shining"). Too bad that Tim never got his wish fulfilled to do an acoustic Millionaires/PTMY tour of North America - it would have been brilliant.