HOXTON CANCELLED

[cbrown]

Tim doesn't play the guitar, he doesn't play the drums, he doesn't physically perform with any other part of his body other than his voice. Of course he dances under normal circumstances, but he does not have to.

Why are we even debating a threat to the tour here? What on Earth could have happened on stage to a restrained Tim that might not happen to him in his day to day life? Is Tim being kept in bubblewrap before the gig? We know he's in day to day rehearsals, capable of singing.

This isn't even a personal thing. I care not a jot that myself or hundreds of others had arranged plans to go - this is a point of principle and logic. The reason for this cancellation is lame. When Pete Doherty or Liam Gallagher pull out of a gig because of a sore throat (something that genuinely affects their participation, if true) they get absolutely slated by the fans and media alike. Can you imagine if they gave the excuse of "dodgy shoulder" so close to a gig?

I'm not expecting you to respond any differently under the circumstances. I'm aware you can't criticise the band's actions. But to the knowledge we've been given here, I feel the band have made a poor decision. Just my opinion. Surely we are allowed our opinions?

cB

[orangehouseburn]

honestjoe07 said:

i think tim was right, you cant please everyone.
Honest
Your Occupational Health Officer

Tim is right - So true.

[cbrown]

honestjoe07 said:

plus we know the band are perfectionists

heh, honest, I thought that was one thing we were quite sure James weren't and never would be :-P

cB

[oneofthethree]

cbrown said:

Tim doesn't play the guitar, he doesn't play the drums, he doesn't physically perform with any other part of his body other than his voice. Of course he dances under normal circumstances, but he does not have to.

Why are we even debating a threat to the tour here? What on Earth could have happened on stage to a restrained Tim that might not happen to him in his day to day life? Is Tim being kept in bubblewrap before the gig? We know he's in day to day rehearsals, capable of singing.

This isn't even a personal thing. I care not a jot that myself or hundreds of others had arranged plans to go - this is a point of principle and logic. The reason for this cancellation is lame. When Pete Doherty or Liam Gallagher pull out of a gig because of a sore throat (something that genuinely affects their participation, if true) they get absolutely slated by the fans and media alike. Can you imagine if they gave the excuse of "dodgy shoulder" so close to a gig?

I'm not expecting you to respond any differently under the circumstances. I'm aware you can't criticise the band's actions. But to the knowledge we've been given here, I feel the band have made a poor decision. Just my opinion. Surely we are allowed our opinions?

cB

I can criticise the band's actions - they accept that if it's justified. In fact, the reason I got to talk to Tim so much in the first place was that I wrote critical articles in the fanzines and he felt he needed to respond whilst the band accepted the criticism.

You were alluding to potential other motives for the gig being cancelled when you actually know nothing about the extent and nature of Tim's injury and who made the decision to cancel the gig - what if Tim was insistent on playing the show, but the rest of the band refused because they knew he was in pain and were aware he couldn't control his movements once adrenalin kicks in?

I've had shoulder injuries that have been so bad that even the slightest movement of the arms can cause great pain. I've seen Tim sing in a neckbrace and try to dance despite it and keel over in pain.

You really think the band with all the enthusiasm and momentum they've got at the moment would cancel a gig without a good reason for doing so? if that's what you think, maybe you should go and play in the road with 9/11 and their conspiracy theories

[Deano]

admin said:

You are wrong. End of.

As I said in my original post, if there's other information not coming to light here then fair enough. And I trust you enough that if you're telling us Tim's injury is such that sitting in a chair and singing might aggrevate it (and as I say, I'm no expert and I'm willing to conceed that this is a possibility) then okay - the show was cancelled with good reason and I've got no reason to think you'd be anything other than honest with us. Hope it gets better in time for production rehersals and so forth.

But I would suggest you take a small step back and look at this from our perspective, having less information than you do, and being told a shoulder injury means Tim can't sing, and so finding that just a tad *weird*, and wondering why exactly? It's not that far-fetched really is it?

[takemeanywhere]

Close your eyes and take yourself back to the small hours of 1 January 2007. You have spent the last few hours exchanging greetings with people you don't even know, or at least don't particulalrly care about. Another year lies ahead, filled with the usual life things. We will all go and see some decent bands, maybe have a holiday, maybe even meet that special someone. Did any of us (with the possible exception of Dave Brown) have any notion that we would be seeing james this year?

Come on guys. Hoxton has been cancelled but we are one week away from something that some of us thought would never happen. I have sympathy with both sides of the 'should they or shouldn't they have played tonight' thing but it has happened and all that matters is that james are back!

Let's have a party. And nobody bring a gun!

[oneofthethree]

Have you ever had a shoulder injury or a neck injury? Basically every movement hurts. You might be fortunate enough never to have suffered either, but believe me, standing on stage for an hour and a half singing is not going to be a very pleasant experience.

[bon]

I've observed this long enough and deano I hope when you say from our perspective you are talking about yourself and possibly cbrown because you most certainly do not speak for me nor many others I seen on this thread.

bon

[honestjoe07]

personally "new shit has come to light" and i blame the Knutson's

sorry but this is getting way to dramatic for this place!

for chris, james are perfectionists, even when they mess up you cant find a fault with it

Honest

p.s anyway who is stuck for something to do should watch Mort and Chris' video outtakes quality stuff

[cbrown]

admin said:

cbrown said:

Tim doesn't play the guitar, he doesn't play the drums, he doesn't physically perform with any other part of his body other than his voice. Of course he dances under normal circumstances, but he does not have to.

Why are we even debating a threat to the tour here? What on Earth could have happened on stage to a restrained Tim that might not happen to him in his day to day life? Is Tim being kept in bubblewrap before the gig? We know he's in day to day rehearsals, capable of singing.

This isn't even a personal thing. I care not a jot that myself or hundreds of others had arranged plans to go - this is a point of principle and logic. The reason for this cancellation is lame. When Pete Doherty or Liam Gallagher pull out of a gig because of a sore throat (something that genuinely affects their participation, if true) they get absolutely slated by the fans and media alike. Can you imagine if they gave the excuse of "dodgy shoulder" so close to a gig?

I'm not expecting you to respond any differently under the circumstances. I'm aware you can't criticise the band's actions. But to the knowledge we've been given here, I feel the band have made a poor decision. Just my opinion. Surely we are allowed our opinions?

cB

I can criticise the band's actions - they accept that if it's justified. In fact, the reason I got to talk to Tim so much in the first place was that I wrote critical articles in the fanzines and he felt he needed to respond whilst the band accepted the criticism.

You were alluding to potential other motives for the gig being cancelled when you actually know nothing about the extent and nature of Tim's injury and who made the decision to cancel the gig - what if Tim was insistent on playing the show, but the rest of the band refused because they knew he was in pain and were aware he couldn't control his movements once adrenalin kicks in?

I've had shoulder injuries that have been so bad that even the slightest movement of the arms can cause great pain. I've seen Tim sing in a neckbrace and try to dance despite it and keel over in pain.

You really think the band with all the enthusiasm and momentum they've got at the moment would cancel a gig without a good reason for doing so? if that's what you think, maybe you should go and play in the road with 9/11 and their conspiracy theories

I thought you would have known and seen that I was one of the strongest critics of the 9/11 conspiracy gang. My throwaway speculation of another motive is only relative to how illogical this decision seems to me. If it doesn't make sense, of course I'm going to try and ponder if there may be more to it. No harm in that. No, I haven't had shoulder problems (and it worries me the amount of people on here it's been revealed that have - sounds like a pretty serious problem) but I still think my points are valid. Tim may be in so much pain he can't physically move or sing. But why then is it known he's rehearsing every day with the band (I refer to the radio interview with Clint Boon only yesterday I belive it was). This doesn't involve anything he wouldn't have done onstage.

Do I think the band would have cancelled the gig "without good reason?". No, I don't. Of course I don't. Hence my muted speculation above. Like I've said, if it is the genuine reason, I'm disappointed. Tim should be able to control his adrenalin.

But anyway, peace. I don't want this to be an argument. We both love the same band. You have one opinion, I have another - it's not worth arguing about.

cB

[sweezely]

cbrown said:

Tim doesn't play the guitar, he doesn't play the drums, he doesn't physically perform with any other part of his body other than his voice. Of course he dances under normal circumstances, but he does not have to.

He needs his arm to hold the microphone, silly.

Anyway, the effects of injuries aren't always obvious. I've only had surgery on my nose, but I still feel tired and have to lie down because of the after effects of the anaesthetic. I often lose my balance, because the painkillers make me drowsy. I'm not sleeping, not because of any discomfort, but because I've got to keep my head upright I can't get comfortable. There's another, completely unexpected and entirely disgusting effect that decorum prohibits any mention of in polite company.

So it may be a combination of factors. Maybe he sat down awkwardly and now he can only sing falsetto. Or he's just being lazy, whatever.

[brotherofjesus]

They probably forgot that the football was on tonight. ;D

Or maybe they are wanting to know what happens in 'life on mars'

[Deano]

admin said:

Have you ever had a shoulder injury or a neck injury? Basically every movement hurts. You might be fortunate enough never to have suffered either, but believe me, standing on stage for an hour and a half singing is not going to be a very pleasant experience.

No, I imagine most things would be fairly unpleasant for Tim to do in that condition. Infact I'm pretty sure he'd much rather be at home in bed. But were I in that condition, even though I knew it would be a thourally unpleasant experience, I'd do the gig, as it'd be my job. I'd probably get a very comfy chair with a headrest for me to sit in and a stand for the microphone to go in so I didn't have to hold it... but I'd do everything in my power to make the gig happen one way or another, even I knew I wouldn't be able to give quite the performance I'd hoped for, and that I really wouldn't enjoy it, because any of those alternatives are better than cancelling - you only cancel a gig if you're literally physically unable to perform. I've seen other bands go to massive lengths to avoid dissapointing thier fans, where it seems here James fell at the first hurdle.

As Chris has said, if this was Pete Doherty or such the press would be rightfully mocking him but people on here have such blinkers on they're convinced Tim and the band can do no wrong and so arn't even willing to raise the question of whether it was the right call or not, and instead would rather deride those who do.

But we're argueing a logic here based on the official reason for cancellation and I think we're not being honest with ourselves. Yes, in some ways the injury is the reason for the cancellation, but like Chris said there is another reason - and that reason is that Tim can't perform infront of a crowd without dancing. And in someways it's commendable, as it shows a connection to the music on such a fundamental and deep level it's wonderful. But on the other hand it also shows a Tim has a distinct lack of self-control on stage, and that's a flaw. And I don't want to hear that, and no-one else on here wants to hear that either, as we don't want to think of our heroes as flawed, it's an unpleasant reality to be faced with.

And from the facts presented here, that is the reality: the gig cancellation was as much about Tim's self control on stage as it was his injury. And in some ways that is a flaw in the band, as much as it is a very good thing when Tim doesn't have a buggered shoulder. And I'm not afraid to say as much on here, even if other posters are going to villify me for it.

[honestjoe07]

shhhhhhhhhh dont start going on about it, ive made a point of not watching it til i get the second season box set!

great show!

Honest

[takemeanywhere]

Deano, mate, you're just repeating yourself now. Come on. Let it go.